All right, so Dr. Bell, thanks for joining us for the Ana Ora History Project here. So there's, like I said, there's a few standard questions we'll hit, it's kind of a conversation from there. So the first question here is just kind of what is your favorite aspect of being an ANA member and what does that kind of mean to you, I guess? So I would say, you know, ANA goes back, you know, decades for me in terms of, you know, it's my institutional memory of it, but I would say off the cuff, it's the relationships that I've built over the years with some really tremendous individuals, the collaboration, the collegiality, and really lifelong friendships that I've made going all the way back to immediately after I finished my fellowship. I think that's the thing that I think has been most important and most monumental in terms of my relationship with ANA. Yeah, I mean, I guess kind of in that vein, obviously, you've kind of seen ANA evolve, I'm sure, kind of throughout, you know, your career, kind of just what it's meant even to us to be involved. So how has ANA kind of evolved with that, just kind of in your time, you know, as a practicing, you know, physician and as a member of ANA? You know, I think like any organization, they, these specialist societies have to evolve because all of our needs change. And I think back to how I originally became involved when I was a fellow at University of Pittsburgh, my first exposure was at the Orthopedic Learning Center through ANA courses. And I was a junior instructor as a fellow. And, you know, I think those of us who have sort of had a desire to stay in academics and teaching always look to good mentors. And ANA was a source of amazing mentors that made me feel that if this is something I wanted to do, that I could sort of become an individual who would teach others and be a resource as I would mature my career. So it really provided the entrance into doing that. And that started at the Orthopedic Learning Center at an ANA course where I was a junior instructor and working with master instructors. And as time went on, especially being in Chicago, for me, it was a little bit opportunistic because of the location, just became increasingly involved initially based on these courses in shoulder and shoulder elbow knee and sports medicine. And I think that as ANA has evolved over time, it's becoming not just a surgical skills organization, but has actually been a practice centric organization that has focused on everything from research and outcomes to practice management, evolving techniques. I think it had a very narrow scope early on, no pun intended, because arthroscopy was not always taught at the resident level and so forth. Now that's really, you'd be hard pressed to find a program where residents know how to do an open rotator cuff repair. So it's becoming less about arthroscopy, but very sort of still remaining somewhat technique centric and very practical and pragmatic and not esoteric. So I think that the organization itself does, what I've learned, and especially being involved in the board level, is it's tried to remain incredibly nimble and responsive to the needs of membership because all of our members change over time and our young people's education change. So they've done, I think, a really good job of keeping young people engaged. I think they've addressed the emerging need from a diversity, equity, inclusion point of view and try to really just maintain the relevance over the years. And I think they've done an amazing job of that just based on the membership, which is now over, I think, 6,000 people. Just really, really quickly, just to branch off now, I'm going to get back to the questions I got to get to, but you did mention mentorship real quick. So do you have a mentor in your career that you fall back to maybe who was the most influential mentor for you or maybe one or a few? I mean, obviously, we had all our great guys at Rush for me, but- Sure. You know what I mean? I think if you think back, Steve, to how you've chosen mentors, it's probably not any, I would imagine, not any singular individual. I've often felt that mentorship is a bit like a smorgasbord where you can pick and choose the character traits of individuals and some one thing or another from one individual may have a tremendous impact on how you think and how you practice. So I've had, you know, I've been, I trained in special surgery. I had some amazing mentors there, you know, and these are mentors that a lot of people quote because they have such, they're forces of nature, you know, people like Russ Warren and there's some others that you may not be familiar with, you know, that these past Dave Levine, who was a pediatric spine surgeon, orthopedic surgeon at special surgery. And, you know, even people that I've watched practice in their face in the sports world, such as, you know, Dave Altschek and people even closer to my age, like Hansworth Allen and, you know, even Scott Rodeo, who are close in age, you know, I think you can find mentors and people who are not age separate, but rather who you think are just really good role models. I was also very blessed to train at University of Pittsburgh with Freddie Fu and JP Warner and Chris Harner, all of whom I would say were mentors at that time. And then, you know, the modern day, you know, when I came to Rush, Bernie Bach was an incredible mentor. You were fortunate enough to work with him as well. You know, I mean, I think that, as I say, these are incredible people in our field. And one of the things that we're really blessed with is we just never stopped learning. And it goes back to that collegiality comment I made about Anna, you said, what's the most important part? I would say it's the fact that I have amazing role models, both professionally and personally. I get new mentors every year, quite frankly, but those are some of the key people. Great. I've changed gears a little bit, but this is one of the questions that we want to make sure we hit here is what piece of advice would you give your younger self, if you could, kind of looking back, kind of knowing what you know now? Yeah, I think there's a couple of things that I think are really important. And I, you know, a couple of years ago, I had the opportunity to do a presidential address that I think is, in my mind, for me personally, my presidential address at Anna's is, I still think it's kind of evergreen in terms of the content I included there. And I think the things that I learned along the way, you know, all of us, or many of us who are in orthopedics, just by its very mere nature, it's a challenging field to get into. It still remains one of the most competitive subspecialties. So by its very nature, people have certain character traits that enable them to get into orthopedics to begin with. And it's usually, you know, detail-oriented people who can multitask, who understand sort of the geopolitical academic nature of various specialties and engendering themselves to other people. There is a bit of humility and self-awareness that's required. And I think that I've often said that humility is one of those things that you and I have to learn. You're not born with humility, you learn it. You don't really learn it until you face various challenges in life. And then you got to dig deep and say, am I equipped to deal with that? And I think that engenders this spirit of humility in people. I think that that's something that people have to be prepared to learn and closely related to that is the sense of self-awareness in terms of your surroundings and what you mean to other people and how you can impact other people. I think those are really key elements. And I think the other issue is just don't underestimate the interpersonal side of doing what we do. If you ask most people, even today, even though we kind of joke around how work ethics are changing and so forth, and I have kids in their 20s, and you might argue that they think and behave differently than I behave in my 20s for a variety of reasons. I would say that the satisfaction that comes from taking care of other people is really engendered in the reason you and I chose to go into medicine and orthopedics is because you make a difference in other people's lives. And I think that one thing I will say that even 25 years of practice, I never, like every time I go to clinic, I think about how much of a privilege it is to actually have people come seek advice, be able to sit down, get to know something personal about them, even if it's five minutes or less, and appreciating the fact that we do something really meaningful for people. It's not life and death often, but when people have pain and are forced out of their activities and can't do the things they enjoy doing, marriage will be even more important when it's taken away from them, because they never think it's going to be taken away from them until it is. You realize how much of an impact that you and I have on people, and that's independent of the economic aspects, the political aspects, all the things that we have to deal with day in and day out. If you just go down to the core reasons that you and I do what we do, then I think that's fuel to keep us coming back every single day. I think that was really highlighted, for example, during COVID, but COVID was obviously a very stressful time for us as clinicians, but one of the things that was really stunning to me is when I got back to practice, the thing I really missed the most, and I noted this while I was out for that, was I wasn't seeing patients for about eight to 12 weeks, was the lack of interpersonal connection and the feeling of sitting down with a patient. When I got back in the office, despite the fact that I was still a little bit uncomfortable not understanding how the disease, we still were at a stage where we felt like everything was a risk, that was overwhelmingly repressed, that sense of reluctance by the benefit of actually reengaging with people. That was just so positive. I was like, God, this is what I really missed. I just think those are some of the things I would explain to people. It's the concept of ongoing mentorship, it's self-awareness, it's allowing yourself to build humility and embracing the real reason why you do what you do and the satisfaction and fulfillment that comes from taking care of people. I think that's a great point. I think it's easy to get caught up in the hustle and bustle of everything that we do and lose sight of what is our goal, what is our site. I think you put that into perspective personally, and I've seen that with you in the office, just taking time to sit down with a patient, ask them, like you said, something personal about their life outside of their knee pain, their shoulder pain, and really connect with people. I think that's, like you said, what keeps you coming back day in and day out. Great answer there. A little bit of a different question, but what do you think is the most or has been the most impactful innovation to orthopedics in your time, practicing or being involved in orthopedics? I'm sure you've obviously seen the rise of a lot of cool technology, and like you said, no one does an open cup anymore, stuff like that. Ironically, I remember when I trained in 1997, when I was a fellow at Pittsburgh, so that was with JP Warner, and we were still finishing up the, I don't know if you remember reading anything, or there was a device called a SureTac device that was basically a polymer that would resorb. It was basically a head attack that we use for shoulder stability. It went from percutaneous trans-osteo sutures, Casperi-type technique to an anchor, and it ended up being somewhat of a disaster because of osteolysis and things of that nature. But that was the only thing we could really do arthroscopically in the joint. And then we started to dabble with arthroscopic suboclonal decompressions, and we can get to the point where we can maybe put an anchor, and then we just didn't know what to do next. And we would do a mini open. And I never thought even arthroscopic cuff repair would take off. I was like, this is just too hard. We're not going to be able to do this. And then the good news is that's where industry partners kicked in and said, look, we can help you get this done. And thoughtful surgeons who are these sort of innovators really paved the way for what I do today and for what you're able to do now from what we've been able to teach. But I had to learn that stuff. So I would have said years ago, like you implied, that doing an arthroscopic rotator cuff repair was the first part of my career. But if I think modern times, things that have been hugely impactful, I would say in the shoulder, it has been reverse arthroplasty. Reverse arthroplasty in terms of the magnitude of change on my patients has been pretty phenomenal. I think in some respects, superior capsule reconstruction has also filled a role that I didn't have a solution. Patients who I wouldn't do a reverse on, who I wouldn't necessarily do a tendon transfer on, who I'm not going to do a hemion, having the ability to do a SCR and related to that to easily do augmentation of repairs that might make a difference in terms of re-tears, I think that's pretty evolutionary. I do think reverse arthroplasty is revolutionary in contradistinction. When I think of the knee, the obvious is that when I was a resident, all we really had was the ability to debride someone's knee. Marrow stimulation was just coming, being validated, wasn't even really being utilized heavily in the late 90s. If you look at even when the publications came out from Stedman, and I would say our ability, what's been transformative has been the ability to take active people who want to be active, I should say, and do a meniscus transplant, an osconiography, or a cartilage repair procedure. When I came out, none of that existed. When I came to Rush, I told Bernie Bach, I said, look, this is an area that I think we can develop that's completely, we don't even know how to think about the problem. Let's make sure we capture every single patient, capture their outcomes, figure out why we're failing, and get better at it. I think we're helping people that had no solution when I came out that now have solutions. It's obviously not, it's far from perfect, but we went from no ability to help people to the ability to help probably 75%, 80% of people when the indications are appropriate with meniscus, cartilage repair, and osteotomy. Obviously, that's one of my biases. Then I would say from a non-surgical point of view, I would say that we have all collectively learned how to do less, not more. I think that understanding the natural history of disease and get the ability to understand what patients think and what they want. I think understanding the human context of patients has allowed us to actually know why patients come to see us in the office and understand that there's a lot of ways to provide satisfying outcomes that don't even approach surgical intervention. I would argue, even though it's still quite controversial, but my personal experience, so we'll call it level five, coupled with some pretty good clinical research in terms of managing the symptoms of arthritis, I actually believe that I've helped a lot of people who can't be helped with simple things like cortisone, weight loss, anti-inflammatories with PRP and hyaluronic acid together. I don't have any financial or vested interest in any of those things, but I will tell you that when I look at my patient population, where I've provided relief of symptoms that when they otherwise had nothing, including no real predictable benefits from arthroscopy, non-surgical care that's included PRP to manage symptoms of arthritis has actually been quite beneficial in my opinion. I think there's literature that supports that. That being said, like anything, you'll find literature that refutes it, but it allows us to have something in our armatarium that even if it has a 35% placebo effect, which it very well might, I'm not so sure that that's a problem because if you and I are in a position to have a placebo impact on a patient, personally, I'm not really sure I care how we get a good outcome as long as we can make a patient more satisfied with less pain and more function. Those are the things that I think have had a huge impact on what I do today that I didn't have 20 years ago, reverse arthroplasty, SCR, soft tissue augmentation of the cuff to reduce re-tear, an understanding of orthobiologics, and that includes orthobiologics in general, which I think are changing the paradigm for re-tears, for osteochondrographic transplantation, maybe for ligament reconstruction, and certainly for the symptomatic management of osteoarthritis, and then cartilage restoration, as we call it. I think those are all really, it makes me really happy I still do what I do because I feel like we can still make a huge impact on people's lives with things like that, besides the bread and butter stuff that we believe works as well. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I feel like it makes you wonder, you know, what's, what's the next 20, 30 years really have in store for where it's due, you know? Yeah. Just kind of seeing with where we were, where we are now, you know, where are we, where are we going with some of these things? Like you said, we keep getting better with some of these really complex procedures. And I think we're learning more and more, like you said, more importantly, not, not only how to succeed, but how are we failing so that we don't kind of keep repeating that and keep getting better. Yeah, I agree completely with that. I think the Orthobiologics is going to be that next piece. Yeah, I think it, I think it will be. And I think, I think we will be focusing on disease modification more and prevention. Really, that's where our efforts should be. The problem is there just hasn't been, A, the research funding to help us get that done. And it hasn't been, you know, it doesn't have a direct clinical impact right now. So there's no real economic incentive other than the spirit of doing research, which thankfully a lot of people have that spirit. But other things that sort of have direct immediate benefit to our patients seem to take off sooner with clinical adoption, even when there isn't, even when there's insufficient evidence to support it, as opposed to things that are probably way more important in terms of its impact on prevalence and incidence of disease. And that's disease prevention and often natural history of things that are going to have a huge burden on our healthcare system. Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, I think, you know, like going back to counseling, I mean, that was one of the biggest things I learned from you is just, one of the things you always tell patients about, arthritis, you know, these are not harmful to you. Like this is not life or death, but obviously it impacts your quality of life. And I think, you know, getting the patient to understand that, like really to kind of set the stage for that outcome, whether it is surgical or non-surgical and does help make a big impact. I mean, you know, with the PRP, I mean, anecdotally same for me. I mean, one of my happiest patients was a, you know, overweight female with arthritis that I did PRP, bilateral PRP injections instead of gave her a life back. I mean, so you can have an effect without, you know, always doing, like you said, brushing with surgery. I think as a young surgeon, you might be eager to do that, but kind of stepping back. And I think that's where mentorship comes in too and seeing how does someone like a Brian Cole handle this complex patient who is probably beyond arthroscopy. Maybe they won't do well with an arthroplasty. They're not going to do well with a transplant. You know, how do we get, like you said, that good outcome by also not causing harm to the patient. Yeah, it is really, that's the art. Yeah, it is, like you say, it's really an art. And I would say that those of you who have good mentors, focus on the office. The OR is important, but all of us are going to become better surgeons the more we do. Yeah. You know, you wouldn't be here at the level of a fifth-year resident going into fellowship or not in orthopedics if you didn't have the basic aptitude to do surgery. I will tell you, every one of us gets better over time, more efficient, more precise, and can make easier decisions in the operating room. The thing that we, I think, the constant learning battle, it really is also in the office, and it's the art of medicine, and it's understanding the human condition. And I think that that, as I say, that's probably the most satisfying, like I, it's funny, I said this yesterday. Today is, we're doing this podcast, it's Friday. I was in the office Thursday, and I drove to the office. I'm like, you know, I just feel like having a really good day. And this, you know, this may sound a little quirky, but I was like, I just feel like having a really, first of all, I love my staff. You remember the people who work with us. I love working with them. We have a very good time in the office, and patients have a good, positive experience. And I really, like, I still love going to clinic and having that, like, it is a great day just to have, you know, five to 15 minutes with 50 to 65 people. It sounds crazy, but it's doable with the right system. And connecting with, presumably connecting, I don't get it right every time, but you certainly, it's insanely satisfying to do that. I don't, you know, you talk to your friends who do other things, their attorneys are in the business, they're entrepreneurs, you know. Plenty of people are making, you know, doing well economically, much better than you and I are. But I would assure you that they don't have the same level of satisfaction day in and day out that you and I get with the environment that you and I are in. You know what I mean? Which is probably the reason I'm not retiring. I don't think I'll retire early because, not just because of that mere fact, I don't know what else provides that satisfaction. You know, that's just a very compartmentalized aspect of our lives that is hard to replace with more skiing or more working out, which, you know, that's great too, but I'm not sure it gives you all those other aspects, you know. No, absolutely. Kind of in the same vein, what we were talking about, this is one of the kind of mandatory, not mandatory, the question they want us to hit here is, what was maybe like the singular best piece of advice you've gotten in your career, kind of going back to those mentors that you've worked with? I think you touched on a few of those points, but if you could kind of boil it down to, you know, maybe one or two key pieces of advice you've gotten. I'd probably go to, you know, overt advice provided would go to Bernie Bach. And, you know, Bernie, you know, he would say things that were self-evident. In some ways you would say, well, that's obvious, but it isn't. And it's like when you have kids and you're trying to teach them something or have them do something that they don't want to do. What I've learned is that they, on the outside, they may completely deny what the advice you give, but if they retain five to 10% of it, which they typically do, you've made a meaningful impact. And so don't be afraid to say it. So Bernie, you know, would always basically say that, look, this is not a sprint, it's a marathon. You probably remember that. And also attending to your family and your kids and don't be an absent parent. And, you know, what we do is very demanding in learning how to say no and know that you're still gonna have opportunities despite saying no, because every time you say yes to something, you're saying no to something else. I mean, despite what you think in terms of your unlimited capacity, you just can't do everything. So Bernie was a very good example of how to strike that balance. And, you know, I would say, I give these lectures on balance in the workplace and things like that. I mean, I'm far from perfect and I could talk a good game, but I always know I can get better. And the one thing I would say is I never wanted my kids to say I was not around. They know I'm really busy. They know I'm really passionate about what I do. They know I'll take a call here and there, but they also know that I am available. And even to the point where I've been on the podium when my kids call and I've been known to pick up the phone, I always want them to know that if they call or they text that I'm there for them. And I'm very quick on the turnaround to know that that's reliable. And there's a lot of ways to accomplish that. So I think that would be the advice that Bernie, and then the advice that I sort of give myself to others is that we talk about as an extension, this concept of balance. And when people are young, they're saying, well, look, I'm just gonna work as hard as I possibly can right now. And then I'll rebalance and enjoy the fruits of my later labor later on. And I think my best advice is that, just, you guys don't know what reconciling your balancing your checkbook is, but when I was younger. Oh, I do. So I don't know. I had one. All right, so you got a checkbook. Right, like at the end of the month, you get the checks that are canceled and you got to balance your fricking checkbook. And I mean, and you have to make sure that it's to the penny and figure out why it isn't. We don't do that anymore. But my point is that reconciling that on a yearly basis to say, look, I'm gonna balance a bit for today and I'm gonna carve out time to work out. I'm gonna take a trip and take some time off. I'm gonna, it just will make you a better, a better, better for your patients. And I think I joke around like my kids. I was out to dinner with my son who's 22 and his friend and we were at dinner and I'm like, so he's like, this kid's at Columbia. And he said, I said, what are you doing? He said, well, I'm interviewing. He's an IT kid and he's gonna have tough job offers. He said, well, I'm interviewing, but I'm looking for a job with a four day work week. And this is not long ago. And so you may or may not know, that's actually a thing, okay? So it's an extension of working remotely. And I'm like, are you gonna lead with that at the interview? You know, a four day work week? I'm like, in my world, you know, you wouldn't even get past out of the gates with that. But you know, the reality is there actually is some data that shows you can accomplish, you know, we don't have a five day work week, but you can accomplish five days of work or four day work week and probably better for a lot of reasons, given all the other demands that you and I have on our time. So there's something to it. And I think we ought to at least be open-minded to that, the concept of being balanced today, rather than saying, work, work, work, work, and let things sort of get swept aside to when you theoretically will have more time. And it doesn't always end up that you have more time later on. So I think pacing a premium on that balance early, I don't know, you almost don't have to tell some of the young people to do that now because they're more acute into it than you and I were, you know, but if they're not, I think it's not an unreasonable concept, the extent that it's possible based on where people are in their training. You know, and I mean, that was actually a question I was gonna hit with you too, is, you know, obviously you're extremely busy, you know, busy OR schedule, busy clinic schedule, you travel, you speak, you do all these things, but that was one thing that really impressed me that I saw firsthand, you know, training with you is just, you know, if you had a spare minute, you call your son, call your daughter, call your wife and check in. It's like, wow, like you really can't, you know, seeing that, okay, it is possible to balance that. It was an impressive thing to see you balancing that. That's what I was wondering too, was that something you kind of figured out as you went? Did you place that premium early or was it kind of, I mean, sure, it was a little bit of a trial and error, especially as your kids age and things like that. Yeah, I couldn't, you know, what you described, you can't do by yourself. I mean, if you desire to have a nice practice where you feel like you're taking care of people and people have access and you're not the one who's providing all the information at every given time, you have to have a system or an infrastructure in place that makes it work. So you look at some of the best companies who do an amazing job, you know, historically, you know, like a Southwest Airlines, you know, you don't have a reserved seat, but it seems to work out pretty well. You know, there's Disney, you go to Disney and you're like, there's just, there's a billion people here, but somehow I don't actually feel like I'm waiting to get on the ride, you know? I was just there. So, yeah, you're doing it before they close, right? And what's going on in Florida. So my point is that I think what you realize is you've got to surround yourself by good people. They don't have to be motivated for the same reasons you are, but capable people. And not even if they have experience, I don't think you have to hire for experience. You just have to hire for attitude and motivation because you can train, people can learn the job, but I think there's an attitude. And if you lead by example, you know, I think having enough people around you that where they're also meeting their goals and able to do those things. And sometimes it requires what some people think is redundancy. I would argue it's not redundancy, it's necessary so that the system doesn't get sufficiently frustrated and create inertia. So I think it's like building something. It's building an office, building a home. It's rarely too big. You always, so I would argue that early in your career, surrounding yourself, spending the money, if it's money early, will pay dividends, not always financial dividends, but you will feel better about your practice and about your balance if you surround yourself with great people who you enjoy being around, who also love their job and whose goals are also being met. And that's, so what you saw when you were training with us was that didn't just happen by accident. And in my first year or second year of practice, I was desperately trying to get more help so I could do what you saw. But my first and second year, I was in every night till 10 o'clock at night. I was making, copying sheets for the office and creating bins and flyers and paperwork and all that other stuff. Now it's all electronic. But the capacity to be largely automated right now and to have efficiencies is like never before. So you can do so much from practice development that enables you to have great people around you. They are productive, they're economically productive, their patients are happier, and you can be the person you wanna be in all those areas. So it's not just because I'm so great at it, it's because I have an infrastructure around me of really great people, but I think people try to cut corners to get there. And there is a critical mass you need, and you need to just basically spend the time and the money to get there. But if money matters to you, it pays dividends, not always by a financial dividend, but it might, but it's also like making you, giving you some longevity, doing what Bernie Bach says, which is, it's a marathon, it's not a race. Yeah, no, I mean, that's great perspective and great advice for sure. One more of kind of a required questions here is just, it's a little bit off of our current topic, but what is just, do you have a favorite memory from your involvement with Anna, whether it's a course, a conference? You know? You know, I would say that I, you know, those of you who are watching, I was on the board in my early forties, and then I was asked to stay on, I was a short stint, like a member at large, and I didn't think I had the time to stay on. And I asked the question, what's the responsibility? And I stepped off the board and I didn't think I'd ever get asked again to come back on. And I did, and then I stayed in. And I will tell you that the opportunity to be in a leadership position, not just because it's leadership or ego, because you're in a room with some really great people. So the specific to Anna for me, it's been the relationships. Like you and I don't have a lot of time, like you're not gonna, you and I are not gonna go spend three days on a trip together, as much as I'd love to do that with you, Steve. Probably not, yeah. We're probably not gonna do it. Probably really enjoy it. But I would probably prioritize my high school or college friends over you. Don't take that personally, right? But I actually would probably really like to be with you, quite frankly. These board meetings and having a block of time where you can't do or go anywhere else, and all of a sudden you find yourself playing golf, which I completely suck at, but or you're doing, sitting around drinking scotch and hanging out with people and getting to know them on an ultra personal level, and their families or civic and others. You we don't really have a vehicle to do that outside of an organizational infrastructure. So I would say hands down, the best, most impactful aspect besides the things I talked about, in terms of being able to teach and mentor and learn and doing that kind of thing, the interpersonal side of it and the friendships and then that you build, because what you otherwise wouldn't have the opportunity to do that comes from that, any organizational infrastructure, and watching how people lead and run a boardroom and run a call and think and create consensus and things like that. I find that part like just the absolute best, and I have my best friends now, I can text in two seconds, they text back and they're all they're busier than I am. And we prioritize each other, because we want to and we feel loyal to each other. Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, that's a great point. These meetings, bring us all together and you meet people who you wouldn't otherwise meet or maybe you've only, especially for younger members, but you've only read their papers or seen them on a webinar, you get to meet these people in person and see what they're like, or like you said, just kind of end up randomly having a drink, having a meal and just kind of get to know someone a little bit. So I think that's definitely valuable. Like, you know, personal to you, I hope that you, you know, I hope that you stay involved. Like, I hope you find this satisfying. You know, you have an end product and that's like a great example. Like I can call a buddy who's really busy, you know, present academies, you know, everywhere. I can call a buddy and say, listen, we're in New Orleans and I can call him an hour before, what are you doing? We're going to come over and say hello. Like, that's a great thing. Yeah, that's great. Those are friendships that never die. You know, those are ride or die friendships, you know? Yeah. No, definitely. It's definitely a great aspect of what we do outside of also patient care is then just collaborating with our colleagues, you know, in and out of medicine, just to kind of stay in touch. Well, thank you.

Dr. Bell

American Orthopaedic Society for Sports Medicine

relationships

mentorship

orthopedics

innovations

leadership positions